Stephen Porges: Dealing with social distancing. Relational Implicit, March 2020
Below is copy of the transcript
[Keywords and Emphasis added by Katarina Halm]
KEYWORDS
ENGAGE
PARADOX
TRUE PRIORITIES
OPPORTUNITIES
MONITOR
CO-REGULATE, SETTLING, GROUNDING.
SYNTAX
MEANING
SYMBOLS.
MODIFY
Stephen Porges: Dealing with social distancing Relational Implicit March 2020 Stephen W. Porges, Ph.D., is Distinguished University Scientist at Indiana University, where he directs the Trauma Research Center within the Kinsey Institute. He holds the position of Professor of Psychiatry at the University of North Carolina and Professor Emeritus at the University of Illinois at Chicago and the University of Maryland. He served as president of both the Society for Psychophysiological Research and the Federation of Associations in Behavioral & Brain Sciences and is a former recipient of a National Institute of Mental Health Research Scientist Development Award. He has published more than 250 peer-reviewed scientific papers across several disciplines including anesthesiology, critical care medicine, ergonomics, exercise physiology, gerontology, neurology, obstetrics, pediatrics, psychiatry, psychology, space medicine, and substance abuse. In 1994 he proposed the Polyvagal Theory, a theory that links the evolution of the mammalian autonomic nervous system to social behavior and emphasizes the importance of physiological state in the expression of behavioral problems and psychiatric disorders.
Serge Prengel, LMHC is the editor the Relational Implicit project (http://relationalimplicit.com).
Social distancing and separation are a big part of what is needed to deal with the pandemic. In this short conversation, we talk about how to counter their effects: we still need to be sensitive to our nervous system’s need to socially engage and connect.
Serge Prengel (00:00): These are really difficult times.
Stephen Porges (00:03): They certainly are. And there’s an irony going on because we have to avoid becoming infected. There’s no question that the Coronavirus is a health risk, especially to those of us who are more mature. It is real. The question is related to the way that we need to behave to reduce that risk through social isolation. And this strategy creates an amazing PARADOX for our nervous system and our needs to interact with other people because, as humans we have a powerful need is to connect and to CO-REGULATE with others, but now we’re being told that this is not the right thing to do. There are priorities and the top priority is not to get infected, but there’s also a priority of understanding the needs of our nervous system…
Serge Prengel (00:51): So, this is a counterintuitive situation where we cannot trust our instinct, evolutionary instinct, because we have to do something different. Not from coercion, but actually from understanding that social isolation is required at this point.
Page 2
Stephen Porges (01:08): I think that is a really concise way of explaining the PARADOX through which our nervous system is trying to navigate. And that is, we need to socially isolate. However, our nervous system says, Hey, that’s not the way we evolved, not the way we need to be. We need to co-regulate, so we need to be smart.
(01:31): Now we need to know what the TRUE PRIORITIES are. And the top priority of course, is to stay alive. But how can we mitigate that nervous system’s demand, request, and passion, to connect? And we have to find ways to connect! We have to do that through telephone and through video chat. They are really reasonably good, and email is okay, but the value of hearing someone’s voice or seeing someone’s face is a powerful reassuring cue of safety to our nervous system. So we have to reach out. It’s been remarkable over the past few days, because the world turned from a social to an isolated world within in a week.
(02:09): A week ago, I was in New York city, it was elbow to elbow. I was talking at a crowded conference. And my comment was, I’ll give people hugs. I’ll shake their hands this month, but next month I will do something different. And within a few days, the world changed. And we realized that it wasn’t a fear of a virus that was really distal in time. It was here. We need to really take care of ourselves and to really MONITOR our bodies’ need to connect, to give others a hug, to smile, to be reassuring, to touch them on their shoulders or on their hands, to let them know that we’re here to support them and be with them. What I’ve noticed over the past few days is my very close friends have reached out through video conferencing, through phone calls, just to connect. It’s really a beautiful moment when people are reaching out to say, I’M HERE. HOW ARE YOU? What can I do for you?
Serge Prengel (03:14): Yeah. So, we don’t kill that impulse to connect . We channel it, and savor it as we find ways to do it through voice and sight – – phone and videoconferencing.
Stephen Porges (03:34): Yes. We MODIFY because we are a relatively intelligent species (at times we are not so sure about that). We are reading our bodily feelings. And our bodily feelings want to be held, want to be embraced, want to be safe with the people whom we trust. That’s basically a neural circuit that’s reaching out. We’re really saying to that neural circuit: We can’t do that now.
(03:59): If we don’t ENGAGE people for a period of time, we go into another state. That is, we become marginalized and we start to become too isolated. And this is really very, very bad for our nervous system. And our body will react to that with a bias of negativity. This is the other issue. As we separate, the notions of being overly concerned, or neurotic, or paranoid about the situation will increase because we are not getting sufficient OPPORTUNITIES to CO-REGULATE.
(04:32): So, being smart, we need to reach out and use the tools that we have. The internet is a useful tool. Through videoconferencing, we can talk, we can hear each other’s voices and we can feel connected. Again, it’s not equivalent to being in the room with a person, but it’s a lot better than not having any contact.
Serge Prengel (04:54): 3 Then, when we connect, when we communicate this way, there is an intentionality that the communication is not just about the content. The communication is about co-regulating. It Is about that sense of connection that we crave.
Stephen Porges (05:15): Absolutely. Because it’s not the words, it’s the intentionality of feelings that we’re communicating with each other. We’re creating a capacity CO-REGULATE each other’s physiological and emotional and behavioral state. As we CO-REGULATE each other, we feel SAGER in the SPACE and TIME that we’re in. We become more generous to others, more welcoming and more accessible.
(05:41): As we isolate, the separated bodies and nervous systems, become more defensive. The nervous system literally supports these feelings of isolation and defensiveness. So we have to be smart. We have to retailor or reframe what isolation is. In this situation. It’s a defense, but we don’t want it to blend or bleed into becoming defensive of our interactions with others. And so we need to really reach out and use the tools that are available to us and ENGAGE others. Use our voices, use our facial expressions, with VIDEO chatting.
(06:22): It’s a lot better than texting. The issue of texting and email is that you’re stripping the voice and the face from the words. Our nervous systems evolved to detect the intonation. I’s only through long a long period of evolution that our nervous system was able to create language, to create SYNTAX and to extract MEANING from SYMBOLS. So we want to relate to each other on a very… almost a primitive level. And that is facial expressivity and intonation of voice. We have the telephone for the voice and we have video chatting for voice and facial expressions.
Serge Prengel (07:01): And so, maybe, we can even go one step further than simply chatting on the phone or videoconferencing. As we are in communication, we consciously pay attention to what’s happening in our body. And communicate with each other that what we’re doing is not just exchanging content, exchanging news, but the PROCESS of co-regulating itself. For instance, as we talk, I am feeling my energy coming down a bit. I’m feeling more SETTLING, a sense of SETTLING and GROUNDING…
Stephen Porges (07:44): You’re feeling connectedness. And what you’re really emphasizing is that it’s not a show-and-tell. It’s a co-regulation. And we have terms that we use: mirroring, attuning, or synchrony. But really it’s all about co-regulating. And what you were emphasizing was to acknowledge one’s own feelings. I would go a step further. That is, to MONITOR and acknowledge the feelings of the one that you’re talking to. So you’re reaching literally into their sphere, their consciousness, their nervous system. And you’re really saying: I’m present. I’m here with you.
Serge Prengel (08:23): Yeah. So that’s a very good step. We’re talking about reaching out. Reaching in and reaching out. Reaching inside, reaching out to the other person. MONITORING myself, MONITORING each other. Having a sense of this is what connection is about. This is what we’re experiencing as we’re connecting. Stephen Porges (08:44): Yes. I think that’s a very good summary of the message.
Serge Prengel (08:49): 4 Thanks, Steve.
Stephen Porges (08:50): Oh, you’re quite welcome. Serge. It’s good to connect during this time with you. Thank you.
© 2020. All rights reserved. Relational Implicit and its web address (relationalimplicit.com) should be properly cited when these contents are used in any form.
“‘the fittest may also be the gentlest, because
survival often requires mutual help and cooperation’
(Dobzhansky, 1962). According to Dobzhansky, it
is this capacity to cooperate that enabled the earliest
mammalian species to survive in a hostile world
dominated by physically larger and potentially
aggressive reptiles. Although unaware of Dobzhansky’s
major contributions, the publication that introduced
Polyvagal Theory was titled “Orienting in a defensive
world: Mammalian modifications of our evolutionary
heritage. A Polyvagal Theory” (Porges, 1995). In
retrospect, the title was a tribute to Dobzhansky’s
insightful statement that “nothing in biology makes
sense except in the light of evolution” (Dobzhansky,
1973).”
–– Stephen W. Porges, page 135 in Porges, S. W. (2020). The COVID-19 Pandemic is a paradoxical challenge to our nervous system, a Polyvagal Perspective. Clinical Neuropsychiatry, 17(2),135-138.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Below is a List of Tracks for an informal reading of the article:
Porges, S. W. (2020). The COVID-19 Pandemic is a paradoxical challenge to our nervous system, a Polyvagal Perspective. Clinical Neuropsychiatry, 17(2),135-138.
with appreciation to Jenn Wesanko for sending us the article.
1/Abstract and credits. page 135
2/ The Pandemic impacts on our biological
imperative to connect. page 135
3/A one nervous system model heightens
awareness of bidirectional brain-body
communication . page 135
4/A Polyvagal Perspective. page 136
5/Public health strategies compound feelings of
threat. page 136
6/ Mitigating threat responses through
videoconferencing page 137
7/ Conceptualizing autonomic state as an intervening
variable enhances the understanding of
risk and optimizes treatment page 137
8/ References pages 137-8
Cabrera, A., Kolacz, J., Pailhez, G., Bulbena‐Cabre, A.,
Bulbena, A., & Porges, S. W. (2018). Assessing body
awareness and autonomic reactivity: Factor structure
and psychometric properties of the Body Perception
Questionnaire‐Short Form (BPQ‐SF). International
journal of methods in psychiatric research, 27(2), e1596.
Dobzhansky, T. (1962). Mankind evolving (pp. 150-152).
New Haven: Yale University Press.
Dobzhansky, T. (1973). Nothing in biology makes sense
except in the light of evolution. The american biology
teacher, 35(3), 125-129.
Hess, W. R. (1949). Nobel lecture. Nobel Lectures, Physiology
or Medicine (1942-1962).
Jackson, J. H. (1884). The Croonian lectures on evolution
and dissolution of the nervous system. British medical
journal, 1(1215), 703.
Kolacz J., Dale L., Nix E., Lewis G. F., & Porges S. W.
(unpublished). Trauma history predicts self-reported
autonomic reactivity and psychological wellbeing during
the COVID-19 pandemic.
Porges, S. (1993). Body perception questionnaire. Laboratory
of Developmental Assessment, University of Maryland.
Porges, S. W. (1995). Orienting in a defensive world:
Mammalian modifications of our evolutionary heritage. A
polyvagal theory. Psychophysiology, 32(4), 301-318.
Porges, S. W. (2003). Social engagement and attachment:
a phylogenetic perspective. Annals of the New York
Academy of Sciences, 1008(1), 31-47.
Porges, S. W. (2004). Neuroception: A subconscious system
for detecting threats and safety. Zero to Three (J), 24(5),
19-24.
Porges, S. W. (2007). The polyvagal perspective. Biological
psychology, 74(2), 116-143.
Porges, S. W. (2009). The polyvagal theory: new insights
into adaptive reactions of the autonomic nervous system.
Cleveland Clinic journal of medicine, 76(Suppl 2), S86.
“you can also increase the flow of oxygen to your lungs by not resting on your back” with appreciation to Doug Bolston for sending us the excerpt from https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/30/well/live/coronavirus-days-5-through-10.html
[excerpt]:
While every patient is different, doctors say that days five through 10 of the illness are often the most worrisome time for respiratory complications of Covid-19, particularly for older patients and those with underlying conditions like high blood pressure, obesity or diabetes. Younger patients who develop complications may begin struggling a little later, as late as days 10 to 12. Most people who reach day 14 without any worrying symptoms (other than feeling miserable and fatigued) are likely to be on the road to recovery.
The best way to monitor your health during this time is to use a pulse oximeter, a small device that clips on your finger and measures your blood oxygen levels. (There are phone-based apps meant to do this, but they have tested poorly) The normal oxygen saturation range is about 96 to 99 percent. If your blood oxygen reading drops to 92 percent, it’s time to call a doctor.
While at home, you can also increase the flow of oxygen to your lungs by not resting on your back. Resting on your stomach, in the prone position, can open parts of the lungs that are compressed when lying on your back. You can also change to resting on your left side or right side, or sit upright in a chair.
James Nestor interview (May 27th, 2020)
with Fresh Air’s Terry Gross (shorter, and audio only):
<https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/05/27/862963172/how-the-lost-art-of-breathing-can-impact-sleep-and-resilience>
Link also includes a transcript of some of the highlights
Noting the website of Deb Dana
http://www.rhythmofregulation.com/Polyvagal-Resources.php
……………………………………………
notes below thinking along the way … some definitions … to be consolidated
~~ VENTRAL / DORSAL in relation to PolyVagal ~~
(ventral and dorsal refer to where the vagus nerve originates in the brain stem)
~~ there was talk about three [branches] of the Vagus nerve ~~
PolyVagal [referring to parasympathetic branches of the autonomic Nervous System]
Branches of the Vagus nerve are Postulated as follows …
1/ a Uniquely MAMMALIAN branch of the vagus
~ conveys a respiratory rhythm to the heart’s pacemaker,
resulting in rhythmic oscillation in heart rate
at the frequency of spontaneous breathing
known as RESPIRATORY SINUS ARRHYTHMIA
~ uniquely mammalian pathway
~ myelinated
~ ORIGINATES in an area of the brain stem
known as the NUCLEUS AMBIGUUS
~ TRAVELS PRIMARILY to organs above the diaphragm
~ interacts within the brain stem with structures
regulating the striated muscles of the face and head.
2/ [REPTITILAN & MAMMALIAN branch of the vagus ]
An originally primitive vagal motor pathway
~ does not have a respiratory rhythm
~ observed in virtually all vertebrates
~ unmyelinated
~ ORIGINATES in an area of the brain stem
known as the DORSAL NUCLEUS of the VAGUS.
~ TRAVELS PRIMARILY to organs below the diaphragm
3/ [ a third branch or plexus or …. of the vagus ]
[~ associated with the Trigeminal nerve…]
……………………………………………
“Vagal tone refers to activity of the vagus nerve,
the 10th cranial nerve and a fundamental component
of the parasympathetic branch of the autonomic nervous system.
This branch of the nervous system is not under conscious control
and is largely responsible for the regulation of several body compartments at rest”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagal_tone
……………………………………………
“Respiratory Sinus Arrhythmia
RSA refers to the naturally occurring variability in the length of time between heart beats that is coordinated with the respiratory cycle, and often used as an index of parasympathetic control of heart rate.
From: Reference Module in Neuroscience and Biobehavioral Psychology, 2017”
FROM https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/respiratory-sinus-arrhythmia
……………………………………………
“Respiratory sinus arrhythmia (RSA)
is heart rate variability in synchrony with respiration,
by which the R-R interval on an ECG 3WE M8,9.
is shortened during inspiration and prolonged during expiration.”
Review Chest
. 2004 Feb;125(2):683-90. doi: 10.1378/chest.125.2.683.
Respiratory sinus arrhythmia: why does the heartbeat synchronize with respiratory rhythm?
FROM https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14769752/
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx3U64IXFOY
Using Failures, Movement & Balance to Learn Faster | Andrew Huberman Lab Podcast #7 “In this episode, I discuss how we can use specific types of behavior to change our brain, both for sake of learning the movements themselves and for allowing us to learn non-movement-based information as well. I describe the key role that errors play in triggering our brains to change and how the vestibular (balance) system can activate and amplify neuroplasticity. As always, I cover science, and science-based practical tools. Thank you in advance for your questions and for your interest in science! ”
* Huberman episode: The Science of Emotions & Relationship – Episode 13. speaking about the vagus nerve towards the end
https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-science-of-emotions-relationships-episode-13/id1545953110?i=1000514835897 including “Mirror Neurons: Are Not For “Empathy”, Maybe For Predicting Behavior”
* Noting also Larry G – Online Summer Camp: https://mindinmotion-online.com/summer-camp-2021/
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Posted by FGNA June 2021.
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